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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2019 3:00:48 GMT -4
So I'm going to throw my hat in on how to rework status effects, at least to some degree.
To preface this, I was talking in vc about mechanics and Pilo encouraged me that if I got any ideas to make a suggestion thread since he said staff might appreciate it. This is 100 percent for fun and I'm under no impression that staff has to use my ideas, again this is mostly a thought exercise that I made into a mini-thread since I was told staff might appreciate it. I'm not trying to be that one guy who thinks he knows how to best run everything, I just do this cause theorycrafting is small past time of mine.
Unlike my last thread this will not be 5k words, it'll probably be kinda short just running through some of the ideas I personally can think of for status effects. Anyway, without further ado here's my proposed changes, do with them what you want or don't do anything with them, I don't care!
I'm going to delve into each status effect individually proposing either rule changes, name changes, or both. My goal with this is I believe right now status effects are way too narrow-minded in who can use them, I think people should be able flavor status effects however they want so that way not every quirk is just reskinned damage.
Another problem with status effects is that some are definitely stronger than others, which I'll go into more detail on when I start writing this up.
And remember for this list my goal is to make status effects more open and accessible for the majority of players, so I'm just going to say this now is in my perfect world fever, nausea, exhaustion have their main effects be ripped out and put into more general abilities that can be flavored up however you want. With the secondary effects coming with the flavor of the ability.
Also to try and make this a little less clustered and easier to digest than last time I'm going to try and stick to bullet points, restricting my tangents as best I can. Anyway I think I've covered everything, time to start!
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2019 4:11:18 GMT -4
BlindWe're going to work from left to right, so let's start with blind.
1. Blind never actually makes you blind, like at all. SS rank blind makes you myopic, that's about it, either let blind make you actually blind at some point or change it's name to nearsight.
SS rank is apparently around All Might level and if that's the case blind is pretty terrible, like what does an "extreme annoyance to the eyes" mean, maybe if it was explained more I'd be alright but right now its extremely vague.
2. Logic issues. So, let me bring up the example in my previous thread of Zugai, I already told the story of how I had to ask if his smoke was see through but that was more endemic to the ability system than blind itself.
But recently I just thought about it and technically because of how blind works, even if you were in his smoke you'd be able to look right outside of it without any disturbance since all it does is narrow your vision by a car, and you can't say it doesn't since if it did mostly limit your vision to the smoke depending on how far in it you were it'd be technically be what like? B rank blind? See what I mean? Blind seems like it was made with things like smoke in mind but it doesn't even work for that.
Suggestions/TLDR: Either rename it to nearsight or just make it blind at a certain rank for a time, I can kinda get how early on it'd just be a nearsight then scale into a blind but its way too slow and as it is it's pretty bad.
Maybe instead of going by how much it limits your vision instead go by how far you can see, so instead of saying "It lowers your vision range by a car" say "You can see up to a telephone pole away" and just decrease the range with progressive ranks up to an actual blind.
I'd say maybe also change the distance marker, a car is kind of vague, or specify how much human vision goes up to in this but yea this one is definitely one of the harder ones to tackle. Fever1. Rename it to something more open, maybe debilitated or something, the only people I can think of that could use this are people with poison based quirks since we haven't had a direct disease-based quirk yet, personally I'd like to see it more since it seems like it'd be fun but it suffers from...
2. Lowering offensive capabilities is really vague, especially with how hard stats and ranks are right now I'd like this to be explained a bit, I mean I understand why it hasn't since you can't just say it reduces stuff by a rank in power or anything since, how do you make that scale to S rank? But at the same time I'd like to know what effect it'd have on power.
Suggestions/TLDR: Pretty simple, just rename fever to something else so more people can use it and explain what lowering offensive capabilities mean. This could be a really fun status effect I just think it needs some elaboration. Nausea
1. Everything I said in Fever basically, I don't understand why we have two effects so close in flavor either and I also don't think status effects should start off flavored.
Suggestions/TLDR: Same as Fever really, nothing new to add here.
Silence1. I want this ability to actually be removed, its so bad and the only time it's even remotely useful is at S rank. A small story, I was going to make a character who had silent footsteps and slowly as he ranked up more of his body would become silent, then I saw this and got scared that I'd be forced to apply this in some degree or something. I understand it's a CC but again you never know what someone's gonna tell you while your grading your sheet.
Suggestions/TLDR: To be honest if this was done to make an illusion status effect I'd get it and if that's the point change it to basically be an illusion thing, but to be completely honest.
I'd just remove this, it doesn't add anything and only gets useful at S rank which even then is sort of dubious, if someone wants to make an aura of silence around them just let them I doubt it'd be overpowered but idk that's me. Burn1. Rename it to DOT or Wound so more people can have access to it, but to be honest this is probably the most used status effect right now so maybe even that isn't required, but again accessibility etc.
2. Does this do equivalent damage to same rank damage by the end of its duration? How does that work?
Suggestions/TLDR: Rename it and specify if it does equal rank damage by the end of its duration maybe, I understand why some would be hesitant about it because it might end up being busted if you outright say yes but I think that's implied right now so I don't know or if you think it might make burn bad or something, it's weird. Exhaustion1. Why do you drain your opponent as much as you are being drained, why not just damage them at that point. It literally makes this ability border on terrible because its basically a worse alternative of attacking that does equal damage to you.
Unless you want to make an argument that you can defeat an opponent just by out stamina draining them which could be cool I guess but also sounds broken, unless durability is applied to every resistance then it goes right back into the terrible category.
If you want this to be an alternative mode of an attack and endurance based that's fine, but it kinda ruins the whole point of draining stamina if you drain your own stamina equally. Also I'm okay with Exhaustion just being called Exhaustion, that's good enough.
Suggestions/TLDR: Don't make it drain you as much as your opponent. Misc Stuff1. Let people propose new status effects and allow freeform, the system can't cover everything nor should it (I.E Silence imo) and so long as they aren't just combining two effects to pass it off as it's own status effect they should be allowed to propose stuff that they think could work out as a status effect.
2. Make Snare come back, I've heard of this legendary illusive unicorn of a CC but I've never seen it, I'd love to witness its great majesty.
3. Allow flavor, stuff like "Feelings of vertigo, dizziness, a want to vomit etc" is basically what I'm talking about except decided on a character to character basis since most of it is kinda inconsequential and lets people feel special.
EDIT: 4. Another thing is some status effects probably shouldn't be the same xp as others, if the XP shop thing I discussed is adopted some of the things should probably be looked at but hey! That's its own thing. Again this stuff was all my opinions and is mostly a thought experiment since I like theory crafting and stuff, if none of this is used I wouldn't care and again like I always say, this is not an attack on anyone in or out of the staff. Puglord out.
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Post by Lani Bijan on May 27, 2019 9:06:04 GMT -4
I'll give my real opinion about status effects. To put it simply, they shouldn't exist at all in the way they do now. Like, not as add-on effects for whatever quirk/ability. These things should he be inherent to whatever they come from. I used this example before, but smoke is a great one. Smoke is hard to see through and hard to breathe in. It's smoke and it's not smoke if those two things aren't there. Things like that should be assumed unless otherwise stated. They don't need to be abilities or effects added on to a quirk. It feels like ability bloat to try and add these in and makes some things sound stronger than they actually are.
I understand that they were added because certain people were ignoring when these effects were being used in a freeform setting. But since then, instead of guidelines, they became hard steadfast rules and abilities. It'd rather go back to the way things started and them realistic and natural effects rather than a special ability or effect. Those that ignore them should be handled by staff instead of staff just rolling out a whole new system and ruleset to respond to it.
For example, I'll take smoke again. It doesn't need extra abilities or even to mention that it is hard to see through smoke and is hard to breathe with smoke around you. These things are natural and inherent to smoke. However, if the smoke does something unnatural like cause paralyzation or makes you tired or anything else extra, that is when it should be stated and count as an extra effect or ability.
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2019 9:23:03 GMT -4
Yea, I do agree that I'd prefer more free form and in all honest I'd like to just axe the status effect system. This in particular was a thought exercise with the rule that I couldn't just say "remove the whole system." I'm more of a fan of free form tbh, this is mostly if they still wanna use the status effect system for it to at least be a lot more free form then it is now. I haven't slept yet so this might be sloppy but ye.
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Post by Rosey on May 27, 2019 9:38:57 GMT -4
I do agree that it's maybe a bit too fantasy like that smoke does not blind or explosion quirks do not immediately burn if you do not use that effect but I can also see why, considering the example you mentioned with smoke: hard to breath when it's around and hard to see when it's around, it means that the balance that I think the site wants to keep is difficult, so it would be nice to have some things natural but we can't make the powers balanced if we let it be this way, what are the rules up to natural abilities that belong to the things as smoke or explosions and all the other elements. I think it would be nice if there was an option for that.
I think changing everything into damage is just bad, which is why I do not agree with your burn comment, I believe that it's made for those like frostburn, fire and so on, so to take that and change it to normal damage would bring me back to point 0 where Rowan's explosions do not burn anything nor her hands that I made glowing hot and I have an ability for nothing. It does not specifically have to do with fire, so if you can find another way to make things burn, it would still give you able to use that ability.
I do agree that nausea and fever are too much alike and that blind uses a strange word for something that does not blind. Again I also can see why it wasn't made that way, not wanting to limit people to much in a fight, I think it might be considered the careful side of staff trying to keep things open and fair.
Silence in general I find a weird one, also because I didn't know it exist and I made my own stealth that was apparently approved.
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2019 17:19:59 GMT -4
I'm going to talk about this in the other post so I'll keep it brief here but, I don't understand why people here want such a perfectly balanced system, right now the balance gets in the way of a lot of the fun IMO but I'll make sure to adress that in my response to you on my other thread!
I did say Burn was probably in the least need of changing, with the most it'd need is to be called "Wound" or "Dot" just for people who want to make a damage over time quirk like a necrotic disease or poison. I also did say that making it damage may be problematic, but I disagree with your reasoning, if Burn doesn't deal any damage under the system it might as well be flavor and not even a combat ability.
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