214 Posts
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26 Years
Male
"Your Favorite Nightmare"
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Post by Dauwz on Dec 3, 2020 19:17:09 GMT -4
Hi True Path,
Rank claims have always been a tricky subject given the system we have on our site. During my time on staff I've heard a whole range of reasons as to why rank claims are a waste of time and, if anything, detrimental to roleplay. I, personally, disagree, and after a chat with the staff team we figured we'd ask you guys. You're the ones who are going to be affected by this possible change the most and far be it for us to pretend like we know what y'all find to be the most fun, right?
So, what is a rank claim? In a basic sense it's a 'canon' position on the site. A character slot that is reserved for plot purposes that people can take on. Kinda like an NPC, but it's your PC. Given this explanation, the best example I could come up with on our site would be U.A.'s principal, Mr. Kobayashi (if, y'know, he actually did something). A figurehead, an important, commanding position of authority within the IC world. Beyond that, a rank claim usually doesn't start out from 0 EXP like normal characters do. They start at an elevated level of EXP, stronger than most other created characters (this, of course, depends on the level of the rank claimed, which the staff of whatever site usually lists out).
That's the basic definition. I propose something similar.
It grated on my nerves how heroes, villains, vigilantes and students always started at the same level (starter packs aside). In my head it totally didn't make sense that in her first year Jasmine could frankly obliterate about 80% of the villain population just because I post a tad more than others. While, yes, I should be rewarded for my efforts posting, I don't think that should come at the expense of immersion. There was this idea that the numbers would even out going forward, but clearly that's not the case, especially if you take arrivals/departures into account. Even now there aren't many villains who could take Jasmine on 1v1 without a prior OOC discussion or delving into something stupidly intricate. Don't even get me started on some of the higher ranking students. Things shouldn't be this difficult. Or bland.
It's my hope that rank claims could partially fix this issue. If anything they might at least spice things up.
Instead of starting out at 0 EXP, your character would start with either a set amount of EXP, or you'd be given a number of abilities you can add to the character sheet and how many of which rank you can apply to them. The ranks can range anywhere between F - A, but not any lower nor higher (regular characters can move beyond S rank, just for reference). To make things work with two types of characters (as in, regular and rank claim), this would be the catch: you wouldn't be earning any EXP on this character at all. You're basically just stuck at your rank without any progression available. The regular characters will eventually overtake you.
I know, I know. You're probably thinking: what the hell is the point of roleplaying that character if I won't get any rewards? I get the sentiment but, honestly? From past experiences on other sites (and discussions with some of you guys before posting this) I'm well aware that there are people who just don't care for the grind at all. What they want to do is create a character, chill and roleplay, and by forcing them to grind if they want to have any real plot relevance at all feels like its alienating a whole range of possible roleplayers from coming to True Path and enjoying themselves. Hell, some of you may be like this too.
Staff would, of course, be working out the logistics of everything if this idea turns out to be a desirable one. As in, how many of each rank claim would we allow per faction, if we would go for total EXP or number of abilities, activity monitoring, plot relevance, etc. etc., but I wanted to first gauge what the thoughts on the subject are from you, the community, and if you guys would even be open to this idea.
So. Whatcha think?
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503 Posts
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21 Years
Male
"Cybrex"
Pro Hero-Rank Quirk:
Proxy
Pro Hero
Played by: Nightshade
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Post by Yusaku Izumi on Dec 3, 2020 19:25:54 GMT -4
Rank claims are done on most sites. Usually they are limited slots, but I frequent sites where you can start at the top if you want without restriction.
It all boils down to how the roleplay action is structured. If this is cooperative storytelling, then it's fine to let people pursue plots and and other things. If people want competitive places, then RC isn't a thing you do.
So I feel like its less a player decision and more of direction decision.
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28 Posts
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Post by Kira on Dec 3, 2020 19:32:06 GMT -4
I like the idea of boosting characters higher with the right justification since I always felt hella awkward playing Maya as a mentor when most of her students were way more powerful than her on paper? So on the one hand I do appreciate the suggestion, and I've seen it work on other MHA sites as well?
However, I'm not so much a fan of the no progression ever? I think that might be too hard a 'drawback', especially if the person doesn't choose to make their character the maximum of maximum ever, and instead just wants a boost to be competitive as a pro or villain or something?
Whilst I acknowledge it might be more work, I'd say you should maybe work on some tiered starter things, similar to pro packages, with the higher ones comprising of stricter and shallower progression like... for example, less potential for big rewards in the form of EP?
Like say you took one of these to start at B Class, maybe your character only gets 1 EP from Saga's, 1 from events, and nothing from mini events? Their progress would be much slower?
Then for your A Class bod, well they should pretty much get no EP period, so whatever progress they made would be from pure RP grind, without the 'perks' of things like Saga's and Events?
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Post by Odd the Wise on Dec 3, 2020 19:40:06 GMT -4
I would be fine with this but I think that rank A might be a tad much for now. Ya'll were also talking about keeping it maxed out at B rank until more regular characters reached that far in the discord chat which I am much more amicable to.
I, myself, have always used most of my EP on starter packs for non-student characters because I've never liked the idea of grinding out starting from nothing just to get them to where I imagined them from the start. I don't know how many people feel the same, but I've definitely felt that a few of my character ideas have been stifled by the fact that I would have to grind them out.
TL;DR: I like this because it would mean I can finally make old sensei character.
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976 Posts
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19 Years
Female
"Yaksha"
Student-Rank Quirk:
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Post by Jasmine Noir on Dec 3, 2020 19:46:07 GMT -4
Pasting this suggestion here from @shalahsaska on discord since he doesn't have a site account yet: |
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169 Posts
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15 Years
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Post by Yang on Dec 3, 2020 19:50:43 GMT -4
I guess it is my turn.
Oh boy where do I begin? I like the idea of Rank Claims but at the same time I don't like it. I agree with Yusaki and Kira. I also have my own notes about it. There needs to be stipulations on the ranks because what exactly stops me from having an A Rank student running around. Let alone multiple A Rank Characters because we can have up to 10 characters on an account? I do feel like there shouldn't be a penalty for someone creating an A Rank Character. Instead if they want to level up like anyone else they should meet qualifications. So if someone was given a rank and start off at 0 EXP then they would have to hard earn the next level.
I will be periodically editing this btw.
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Post by jyu on Dec 3, 2020 19:52:07 GMT -4
Hi, i'm new here, so I may not understand the situation clearly, but I hope that I can offer a few suggestions and my input. I believe rank claims would be beneficial to positions that are in need. Firstly, I think if you have a bunch of powerful UA students, and no powerful villains, maybe opening Rank claims on the villain side would be more beneficial than both. The thing with rank claims is you have the potential to have people who are there for the story really get to enjoy RPing the way they'd like to without any of the grind. However, it also can lead to high turn-over on position.
Since you don't work for for the position, starting at the top could get boring quickly and you can have people apply for a position one day, get it, and leave the next week. They don't feel as inclined to stay because they didn't technically put in the hours to get that strong. So here comes a suggestion I have.
It might be a bit better to do Character Claims for NPC with certain ranks. I.e. staff creates a character as the U.A. Principle, allow the person to make minor alterations so they feel comfortable rping, but ultimately the Character remains the same. The person taking on the character would have to have some idea of that character's history on the site. Don't know if this is a valid point but it could help and stop the site from shuffling 3 principles in 3 months.
Edit: Also if you do roll out the rank claims let current members do Rank Claims on their character? Via RPing for it. X amount of words about their training to get strong, or a Saga to get it.
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879 Posts
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20 Years
female
""Angel of Mercy""
Pro Hero-Rank Quirk:
Angel Wings
Pro Hero
Played by: Jazzy
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Post by Angel Surami on Dec 3, 2020 21:03:06 GMT -4
While it's a cool idea, I truly don't care for having to start a brand new character from scratch and not being able to gain xp from them. I may be considering this wrong, but i like the idea of influential characters (Pro-heroes or civilians or upcoming sidekicks who have done big or note worthy things being given a bit of notoriety. I'm not saying that it has to come with exp because I know how that can turn into problems, but maybe more of notoriety type things? Them given small certain perks (for example it be easier for a pro to rise through the leader boards, a civilian having it easier to get a business off the ground or a newly graduated hero not having to be a sidekick for as long because they have proven themselves.)
again I'm sorry if i'm misinterpreting the idea.
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647 Posts
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"The Aussie"
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Post by sporky on Dec 3, 2020 22:32:53 GMT -4
Largely restating my own thoughts as expressed in the Discord, but here are my primary points, organized because I'm a nerd
a) Rank Characters work better in other, more hierarchical or faction based settings, in which there are 'roles to fill' so to speak. I don't really see that being the case as much for True Path, given that all Pro Heroes and Students etc. are of equal authority (year level notwithstanding) and all organizations with hierarchies of sorts are player run.
b) This case is more of just a way to populate with stronger PCs rather than more influential ones, I feel, which is a bit odd. What other roles, after all, could a rank-claim fill aside from just 'strong member of X'? Positions of power in the True Path setting are largely governmental, after all, and groups like Villains and Vigilantes are made up of separate sub-groups rather than single entities. So it's a matter of if this is a good way to make more strong PCs starting off, which...
c) In the case where we want people to feel like they don't always start from the lowest rank, and want to populate with more stronger Villains and the like, I'd prefer a system with a smaller boost that still lets them gain EXP afterwards rather than a 'fixed' rank. Perhaps tidying up the somewhat messy Starter Pack system would be a better approach. As a further note, if the main problem is we don't feel Villains/Heroes are strong enough, I'd rather make the existing members of those groups stronger instead of introducing new people entirely.
d) In the case where we want Members to be able to take up positions of influence over the site plot, that's it's own thing and really only applies to Heroes in the end. Villains and Vigilantes don't have any kind of central organization, after all.
To summarize:
If this system is supposed to populate with stronger Heroes and Villains, it's a stopgap at best. Aiding current Heroes and Villains in being stronger, or reworking Starter Packs, would be far, far more efficient and effective.
If this system is intended to allow members to take up influential decisions, our current setting only allows this in a Governmental or Law Enforcement sense. Which I am, honestly, not opposed to, but the intention needs to be clarified.
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32 Posts
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24 Years
Female
"Yojimbo"
Bandit-Rank Quirk:
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Post by Nakamura Rei on Dec 4, 2020 2:14:54 GMT -4
I would agree with Sporky's view on this personally
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211 Posts
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Old Years
Male
"Gran Torino"
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Post by Jar Star Assistant. on Dec 4, 2020 8:36:42 GMT -4
I'm honestly not a fan of it. I feel this is something that would only work of a fresh or full reset type of setting. It really does just make it odd and strange given so many others that earned there way to a rank or where they stand. Someone being able to just start at the top in some cases because of plot point A or B can also just easily turn into excuses to get their players up that high since allot of people will always go for the route that gives them power. It seems just a easy way for people to try and get their chars at the top while others genuinely would work for it.
The only real missing links of powers in plots or areas are more when people have left in the past but that's just honestly a part of rp forums. I really don't think this is a good solution and if anything may cause far more problems then it actually helps
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211 Posts
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Old Years
Male
"Gran Torino"
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Post by Jar Star Assistant. on Dec 4, 2020 9:51:56 GMT -4
It honostly seems like a easy way to skip ahead and just start with a unfair advantage. The system usually works for hte most part and some changes to the exp system or a way for catch up should be looked at but simply allowing a rank that others have worked hard for to be handed over to someone simply cause someone thinks that plot is better hten someone elses seems like a awful idea. Its not catch up which is whats needed if you simply pump up there. A way to boost catch up is good but rank claims I can't get behind. People should all get a fair shake and that includes having to build your char and growth like those that came before you. Someone might be stronger hten you but they went through the system fairly like anyone else in doing so.
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Post by BlenderMutt on Dec 4, 2020 10:46:22 GMT -4
So I've always been a fan of fully freeform environments, I prefer role-play over rpg. Role Play to me is a big playground sandbox where we all get to play pretend once again. Anyone who's heard me rant about stats or exclusivity knows I take the stance that a good community will regulate itself when it comes to bullies in the sandbox. I feel a well woven narrative is at it's core the ultimate reward for role-play, more so than a metaphorical dick-measuring contest. From what Ive observed over the years, the factor that makes someone stand out as iconic and worthy of attention, has always been the quality of posts produced, rather than the quantity of paragraphs written or what's listed on their stat page. The mentality that "I had to grind my way to where I am today, they should have to put in the effort too" just sorta boils down to "I had to suffer, they have to suffer!" I'm of the stance that any fun hobby should contain as little suffering as possible. If you wanna RP someone strong, rp someone strong. If you wanna rp someone having an anime adventure and growing from every hurdle and obstacle, then rp that. The only area I see this really causing a problem in, is with PvP driven confrontations, but seeing as those too are pretty much conditionally consensual, last I checked no one is forcing anyone to fight.
That being said, I feel like the proposed idea of Ranked Claims could use some refinement and stipulations for what kind of character can be made (IE lets avoid overpowered students). But otherwise I feel like this is an idea worth speculating and tweaking.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2020 16:52:14 GMT -4
I am personally against the Rank Claim idea. I like the shared progression on the site. Knowing that if someone's character is strong out of effort and not by coincidence. This site is a progression based system and circumnavigating that in any way means that those that spend effort working on their character may feel invalidated.
If we were going to do something like this I would rather us just move to total Freeform RP. If we are just going to completely renovate the system to allow freeform then we should just start over fresh. Moving too far away from the existing system is a bad idea in my opinion.
Now I do think there are things that can be done that fix some of our issues. Rework the progression to be more satisfying, add a fourth benefit or a kicker slot for quirks, readjusting the ceiling to make progression a little faster. I think that there are a lot of great ideas we could try but something like this moves too far away from the system and site I enjoy for my taste.
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