Post by Kaisaki Inoue on Aug 21, 2020 8:35:10 GMT -4
I try not to use this board too often, even for active discussions or suggestions. As a History graduate and a former member of a debate team and someone who went into a lot of very heated philosophical discussions, such topics tend to burn me out a lot.
However, there's been a trend on the site for as long as I can remember when it comes to these suggestion threads and it's something that's never really addressed because people either try to ignore it or try to circumvent any repercussions of it. When a suggestions thread is posted, it is about a specific topic and the suggestions and discussions are supposed to be about that topic.
Unfortunately I've seen many posts from people in these discussions that completely derail or dilute the overall message by bringing in completely unrelated site issues that they personally have felt. It turns these discussions into pulpits and platforms for members to voice concerns that have been plaguing them because they know people will be reading the thread, even if those concerns have nothing to do with the overall message of the thread. At all.
This. Is. Not. Fair. It's not fair to the person who started the thread hoping for a healthy resolution to the topic. It's not fair to new members to the discussion who want to contribute but have to wade through a lot of meaningless noise to get to the point. It's not fair to the staff who have to take all these miscellaneous issues into account when they were just trying to focus on one specific problem.
Now, this does not mean members shouldn't voice their concerns or gripe when they feel like there is a problem or they have been wronged. On the contrary. I think it's a good thing to at least have open, healthy discussions about specific problems but these never seem to get solved because, as I said, they get watered down by people piling on hundreds and hundreds of different smaller issues that obfuscate the true intent of the thread.
The most recent example and what specifically triggered this frustration is the clique thread. Kyoukon was clearly trying to find a healthy resolution and yet certain points made by other members, not Kyoukon, in the thread just made me scratch my head in confusion. I couldn't see the obvious link to cliques and it just felt like people using the thread as a means to shout into the debate about things that at best had only a tenuous link to the topic at hand.
Healthy discussion and debate is based around the concept of "Here are some issues related to the topic and here are some solutions I have thought up that would perhaps help." and then a back and forth based on that same format until a compromise, final solution or resolution of some manner has been achieved. What is not healthy is saying that there is a problem, offering no solutions and instead outright offering call outs or challenges to the people reading.
I have seen far too much unhealthy debate. Enough to last a lifetime.
It was often used as a tactic in Debate Club to deliberately separate or isolate people and mussy discussion to make the other team flounder and look incompetent or disorganized. This is a non-constructive and ultimately necessary tactic in my opinion if you are trying to reach a resolution to a problem.
So I believe people here are doing that on purpose? No! Not even close, in fact. Almost every example I can come up with is most likely people letting emotions get the better of them, starting to ramble or just feeling like it's their only chance to get something out. This is by no means direct sabotage or trying to intentionally derail discussion but unfortunately it has the same effect. It is unhealthy, non-constructive and ultimately unhelpful.
If I'm honest I'm not really sure how to end this post. I just want to say that the majority of members on this site are wonderful people, even if we don't agree all of the time. When we have discussions in the Discord, 90% of the time it's more than civil and we all come out as friends; it's only when it gets made into a Discussion or Suggestion thread that it seems to waver.
...Which sort of defeats the point of me making this post but hey, I've written it now. xD
However, there's been a trend on the site for as long as I can remember when it comes to these suggestion threads and it's something that's never really addressed because people either try to ignore it or try to circumvent any repercussions of it. When a suggestions thread is posted, it is about a specific topic and the suggestions and discussions are supposed to be about that topic.
Unfortunately I've seen many posts from people in these discussions that completely derail or dilute the overall message by bringing in completely unrelated site issues that they personally have felt. It turns these discussions into pulpits and platforms for members to voice concerns that have been plaguing them because they know people will be reading the thread, even if those concerns have nothing to do with the overall message of the thread. At all.
This. Is. Not. Fair. It's not fair to the person who started the thread hoping for a healthy resolution to the topic. It's not fair to new members to the discussion who want to contribute but have to wade through a lot of meaningless noise to get to the point. It's not fair to the staff who have to take all these miscellaneous issues into account when they were just trying to focus on one specific problem.
Now, this does not mean members shouldn't voice their concerns or gripe when they feel like there is a problem or they have been wronged. On the contrary. I think it's a good thing to at least have open, healthy discussions about specific problems but these never seem to get solved because, as I said, they get watered down by people piling on hundreds and hundreds of different smaller issues that obfuscate the true intent of the thread.
The most recent example and what specifically triggered this frustration is the clique thread. Kyoukon was clearly trying to find a healthy resolution and yet certain points made by other members, not Kyoukon, in the thread just made me scratch my head in confusion. I couldn't see the obvious link to cliques and it just felt like people using the thread as a means to shout into the debate about things that at best had only a tenuous link to the topic at hand.
Healthy discussion and debate is based around the concept of "Here are some issues related to the topic and here are some solutions I have thought up that would perhaps help." and then a back and forth based on that same format until a compromise, final solution or resolution of some manner has been achieved. What is not healthy is saying that there is a problem, offering no solutions and instead outright offering call outs or challenges to the people reading.
I have seen far too much unhealthy debate. Enough to last a lifetime.
It was often used as a tactic in Debate Club to deliberately separate or isolate people and mussy discussion to make the other team flounder and look incompetent or disorganized. This is a non-constructive and ultimately necessary tactic in my opinion if you are trying to reach a resolution to a problem.
So I believe people here are doing that on purpose? No! Not even close, in fact. Almost every example I can come up with is most likely people letting emotions get the better of them, starting to ramble or just feeling like it's their only chance to get something out. This is by no means direct sabotage or trying to intentionally derail discussion but unfortunately it has the same effect. It is unhealthy, non-constructive and ultimately unhelpful.
If I'm honest I'm not really sure how to end this post. I just want to say that the majority of members on this site are wonderful people, even if we don't agree all of the time. When we have discussions in the Discord, 90% of the time it's more than civil and we all come out as friends; it's only when it gets made into a Discussion or Suggestion thread that it seems to waver.
...Which sort of defeats the point of me making this post but hey, I've written it now. xD
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