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Post by Katahime Taisou on Jan 10, 2020 17:08:41 GMT -4
Crimson Thundachu Today at 8:16 PM note for advertising and the AC! You need 10 ads PER account. 10 ads will get you the extra 50 exp only on one character. If you do another 10, then you can post those on a second char As someone who went out of their way to post 10 ads for the ad campaign, this ruling is unfair and incredibly frustrating to the point of sheer lunacy. I'm going to try and keep myself contained and not resort to swearing like I did in the venting channel on Discord but if I slip up, I apologize, it's the Scottish blood. In my 12 years of rping I have never in my LIFE seen a site incentivise a member to post ads and then throw it back in their face saying "Nah sorry, you didn't post enough ads. You didn't waste enough time today doing something for the site. Sorry pal." Not only is this unquestionably rude to the members in question who actually decided to post ads for the site, who went out of their way to do such a mind-numbing task for relatively little gain, who genuinely want to help the site by encouraging people to come here... Not only that... But to do it AFTER the site has already been warned of spamming ads? I have seen sites that have subsisted on absolutely no advertisement at all. To find members actually willing to do ads is a near freak occurrence on a lot of sites. Indeed, the only two people I know who have posted ads are me and Rosey. Though if anyone else has posted ads, I apologize, I just haven't seen your posts and am a bit too riled up at the moment to check. Point is, out of the maybe 30-40 accounts in all that have posted for the AC check, MAYBE 10 have posted ads. Maybe. And yet you decide to piss on those people anyway? In addition, if 10 ads are required per characters, why are only 3 threads valid between all characters? What is the precedent here? How is this in any way consistent? I had one of my original 10 ads deleted because someone posted an ad on the same site after me and then I get hit with this as well. Not a happy camper right now, if you can't tell.
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Post by Hotarubi Deguchi on Jan 10, 2020 17:21:27 GMT -4
I would also agree that 10 for 50 exp seemed way steep to me. However, I do see where it came from. An example: many systems are set up here to make it so you can have as many characters as you want. There is not supposed to be a mechanical advantage to doing so. If your exp from posting the adverts applies across every character, then you actually have been incentivized to make as many characters as possible. So I do get why they wouldn't want to apply it across all characters.
However, I think my complaint would be that the 10 adverts per character for 50 exp is a little crazy. I would personally like to see something more like 10 exp per 1 advert? Higher total possible and also gives a reward for just incremental. That's just my thinking.
As for yours being deleted after being posted first, that sounds like a miscommunication or something that could be worked out with staff and like yours should still be the eligible one, if it were up to me.
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Post by Crimson on Jan 10, 2020 17:34:45 GMT -4
Heyoo. So I've been at work, hence why I haven't been able to see or discuss anything in venting. Gomen. Anyways, so this is the way it was since the beginning, but obviously that wasn't made clear. A member came up to me earlier in the day asking me to clarify if it was 10 ads per character or 10 ads in total. So I then clarified for them that it was 10 ads per character. That h aving been done, I had to of course let everyone know as it hadn't been clear enough in the beginning. All my sites have always had an advertising incentive, and I've been roleplaying for some 18 odd years. I apologize that it wasn't made clear right off the get go, and will correct that moving forward for future Activity Checks. As for 10 ads being a ridiculous amount for 50 exp, I have to strongly disagree. 10 ads basically gets you a free life skill. Increase that to 10 exp per add, and we're giving away a free combat ability. It makes things too easy, too much of a 'cheat'. We're not forcing anyone to do the advertisements, it's something you need to want to do. If you don't want to do more than 10, then that's totally fine! Just chose which character you would like the reward on and that's that. If you don't want to do any? That's fine too! this is free exp we're handing out, we could just not give out any reward or advertising incentive if it's going to cause issue. To finish, the advertizing incentive on my alternate site has members doing this: Great for the site, but imagine giving 10 exp per advertisement? He would have racked up 500 exp for doing NOTHING in character. This exp is meant to be as a little thank you, not as a significant boost to your characters as we want you to be able to develop them more naturally through the RP you write. Adding to that, what AIM said is very accurate. If we just give the exp across the board, then it just causes people to create more characters to earn more exp, which increases the likelyhood of someone somewhere playing the system (converting their free exp into EP then using it for other characters, etc etc). I assure you that none of this was done with any ill intent, and I apologize that it has sent you into a fury. I will be more cautious with these clarifications in the future.
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Post by kouta on Jan 10, 2020 17:57:18 GMT -4
I think the point was that 10 adverts gets 50 EXP on all your characters.
EXP is not transferable, neither directly nor through EP, save for starter packs if a certain character meets requirements. No one ever suggested to remove the upper limit. Just that it shouldn't be 10 PER character. Advertising is an obnoxious process that is unfathomably boring to most people and, to some more anxious people like me, a terrifying thing, since I'm left scared that I'm being a huge, needless and unwelcome pest.
Hence, I agree with Rebecca. 10 Adverts, get 50 exp for all your characters, extra ads don't get anything. That's my view.
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Post by Mia Kearney on Jan 10, 2020 18:08:49 GMT -4
No. Literally not how this works. EXP is not transferable outside of starter packs, so if you have 4 characters, each one, individually, earns 50 xp from this. That exp is stick to them permanently (outside of starter packs which shouldn't be abused for loopholes). Having more characters does not earn you more exp as a whole, it just means each character is treated fairly. That exp can't be pooled on one character to empower them, so having more characters all getting 50 xp dosn't give you more it just means... all your characters are kept equal, and you don't have to choose which of them is a priority. Personally this is why i hate when I have to choose wich of my characters goes into an event, cause i have to decide which of my characters is a bigger priority to progress. If the rewards were transferable i'd understand, but they aren't, so this rings of a false argument of 'being fair'. If your just punishing people for having more characters by making it harder for them to maintain all of their relevancy in terms of power level.
Okay so. I'm not too sure what you're displaying here? Did they HAVE to do 50 or did they choose to for rewards? Either way, this is YOUR site. If its the minimum there, your argument feels like 'consider yourself lucky', which is always a frustrating argument. This is your site. You set the rules. Whether you make it harder or easier is your own decision. There's no reason to compare.
On the other hand if they did that by choice... fine? Whatever system allows them to do that, he went the extra mile, that hard work is his, and you chose not to have that system. Entirely fine. It just feels like there was no reason to bring him up.
Its also about 5% of a B rank. Or half a decent thread for most people I rp with. A life skill may also be unwanted by most people. I only even started getting them cause my characters are 'settled' combat wise ALL THE WAY at 8000 exp total. And even then im justifying it to myself as letting other people catch up before i start saving for A rank. 50 exp is a nice, healthy chunk, but you have the opportunity to be generous, and your just flat saying no. If your argument is "Your getting more exp", technicaly, maybe, but as stated above its character locked, so it's just fair to those who have more characters to help them keep all their characters 'level'.
Oh and while i remember-
No. Again just a flat no. It costs 2 ep per character. To put it in terms already put here, thats 5-10 activity checks worth of exp PER new character you want, with no exp spent on your characters. 50 posts of 1000 words long, with again, none of tha tput back into your original character to gain more. You CAN have as many as you want, but it is in no way an easy thing to achieve.
Im gonna admit... my thoughts aren't the most coherent. Im british. it's 10 pm after a long work day and i just spend 2 hours minding my siblings and putting them to bed, but ultimately people feel ripped off, cause yes, it wasn't communicated well and as stated, if you can use the same 3 threads, why not the same 10 affiliates across all your characters.
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Post by Hotarubi Deguchi on Jan 10, 2020 18:25:38 GMT -4
Never said transferable. The poster of this feedback thread said they wanted 50 exp on every character for 10 adverts. I said that this means that youd get more exp total the more characters you have. That is a potential exploit. It's still more exp for a person with more characters doing the same thing.
Say quizzy or I post 10 adverts. Why should we be getting 200 exp across four characters while a person with one character just gets 50? It means it's now a rush to make all of your characters as fast as you can so you'll get exp every time you make adverts.
EDIT: Not too proud to admit I just realized that activity check exp already works this exact way lol. Maybe a moot point then.
EDIT: also never said it is an easy thing to achieve. Still. No limit on characters. I could have seven right once shinagawa closes if I wanted to. Lol
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Post by Katahime Taisou on Jan 10, 2020 18:33:42 GMT -4
I appreciate the response, Crimson. Same with everyone else who has responded, thank you for adding your opinions.
I agree a lot with Yumi and J's opinions here, though I feel I have to add one thing from myself. The fact that this wasn't made clear up front you've apologized for and I accept that apology, however I don't think you're grasping just how insulting it sounds to be told "You didn't do enough voluntary effort, sorry." and then to be shown someone who did 50 of these ads like "Look, see what they did? Isn't that special?"
To borrow a phrase from David Mitchelle: "It's like showing a very tired mason a whole cathedral."
My point doesn't really align with the discussion about characters or EXP or whatever, my concern is more just how insulting it is to give away your time to do something for a site and then get told you didn't do enough. To give an analogy, it feels like I've give some money to charity, gotten a keychain in return, a little keepsake, then had that keychain taken away from me, cut into three pieces and then told "Sorry, if you want the other two pieces, that'll be three times the price."
Can you see why this seems so ludicrous? Can you see why I'm so pissed off?
Not only is it a lot of mind-numbing, boring work for 50 EXP, which as Crim pointed out is enough for a Life Skill even though technically Life Skills are, or at least feel like, 100% optional content but also the fact that you linked a page from another site basically saying "Look, they did it, it's not hard." just adds so much fuel to the fire.
As such, I'm sad to say I feel like your response to this situation fails to clear up anything and only seems to rub salt in the wound. I respect the fact that you apologized but it feels more like an apology that I got upset, more than an apology for the issue at hand.
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Post by Mia Kearney on Jan 10, 2020 18:34:23 GMT -4
And with your continued example, I don't really see that as a sound argument? Its the same as saying "its a rush for new members to get in to hit the AC", but that already exists, and if someone misses it they miss it. Some people just don't want more characters. But why should my desire to have more interesting characters that all remain relevant be made harder beyond the fact i naturally have to keep up with 4 characters? Yes, ultimately it's more exp but...
Let me think of an analogy.
Lets say your a manager of a team in a company. Maybe through personal desire, you took on 4 people under your management. Somehow the other manager got 1 person under him. You, as a manager, do work for your team, and get funding. The other manager does the same, and gets equal funding. Your told because you took on the obligation to manage 4 people, you have to both manage them all (which is more work) AND do more work to get the correct funding each deserves. Ultimate, you're getting 'more funding', but each team member still recieves the same.
Edit - to explain the analogy, this is what managing 4 characters is like, I have to work hard to make sure they all stay relevant (managing them) AND if crim's method remains, do more work to ensure they all get the additional funding that each one deserves. The hard work i put in through them is a lot in itself, i don't feel it's rude to want a little bit more ease in a moment like this.
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Post by Luzia Gottschalk on Jan 10, 2020 18:38:14 GMT -4
I'm distracted by extreme offline difficulties right now, so I won't be able to respond with a big wall addressing each and every point or any of that. Forgive me.
First off, I want to point out that my first reaction to the announcement was not of approval. Even just skimming it (only a sentence helps with that) showed me that it is, in plain terms, Not Good. Advertising is not an easy thing to do, particularly when you're competing with other people; finding sites which have not been advertised on can be difficult, and tends to shrink with every activity check. And then there are instances of accidentally posting twice on the same site, which can sometimes result in complaints from the site that we've advertised on. Considering that this announcement came right after such a site complained and warned us, calling it poorly timed is understatement.
As for it itself... I have been roleplaying for at least 11 years, and I have seen these advertising incentives before. I haven't spared the time for them, partly because I didn't know how to advertise. I support the idea of such incentives despite that, but at the same time... 50 exp for one character? That is just horrendously low. It is a free life skill, which is nothing more than flavor. This is not an award worth the effort, not for one single character, and it's really a thank you at all to someone that has multiple characters.
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Post by Yuuto Samejima on Jan 10, 2020 18:49:42 GMT -4
Im lookin in from a neutral standpoint and it wasnt the best move due to previous issue of spamming as one person did come into the server to voice the strike rule. They did let us off with a warning but it shows an issue with trying to find 10 sites to advertise on.
For 50-100 exp per character? enough for a skill if you one were find 10 sites to put ads on but at most it'll be seen as a big issue to people with multiple characters. Each one has varying roles on site so exp is VITAL for some plots to happen. Most people like the punchy plots that require more than flavor skills.
Coming from someone who just likes this place,some delay on the decision should have been bounced inbetween the others before doing this. Or decide it beforehand instead of dropping it after the fact. And keep in mind the issue of spamming other sites, and dont compare one site to another.
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Post by Alisa Vollan on Jan 10, 2020 19:30:42 GMT -4
There's so many things wrong with all this I wouldn't even know where to begin. Thankfully, most of it has already been addressed and i see no need to just keep beating the subject to death. I wholeheartedly disagree with mass ad campaigns the way this site seems to do it, which only encourages spamming. You'd be better off rewarding members with 10 XP a month for creating a single ad, preventing adfests like this one and allowing every member their fair chance. My main issue with your argument is this: Anyways, so this is the way it was since the beginning, but obviously that wasn't made clear. A member came up to me earlier in the day asking me to clarify if it was 10 ads per character or 10 ads in total. So I then clarified for them that it was 10 ads per character. That h aving been done, I had to of course let everyone know as it hadn't been clear enough in the beginning. This seems to have been a general misunderstanding, people who understood the way you expected it to work have been minimal at best. Creating ads takes time and effort, you have to actually look for sites, make sure they qualify as "active", and then you have to read their advertisment rules and often sift through pages of recent ads just to make sure nobody has recently placed another there. It takes too much effort for the person in charge to simply come along and say "sorry, that was a mistake, you actually need to make 10 more for every other character" Anybody who went to these lengths and recieved such a response has every right to feel furious. If 50 XP really is as meaningless as a single life skill, then receiving that as compensation seems like a fair tradeoff, instead of having their rewards denied on technicalities. You're the owner of the site, so own up for your mistake.
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Post by quizzity on Jan 10, 2020 20:31:59 GMT -4
Hey friends, cutting-in here.
I speak on behalf of the entire staff team.
Regrettably I haven't had the opportunity to read everyone's input, as I have been traveling home for a bulk of the day.
Despite this, I have had my hands in this conversation from the very beginning. If you'd like to further discuss any concerns or qualms, please DM me or another trusted member of staff.
Our decision, as staff, is to honor the 10 ads per player requirement. We do this out of respect for all of the hard work you've done so far.
We apologize for any undue stress that our announcement may have caused.
Moving forward, we will be re-evaluating how ads factor into our activity checks in the future.
Stay Beautiful. Be Excellent to Each Other.
- Quizzity
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